Pontiac Grand Am:

97 grand am cranks won't start | Page 2

You are not logged in.

# 11  2/28/2012 9:20 PM

squirelscat
Member
Registered: 2/23/2012
Posts: 15

Re: 97 grand am cranks won't start

Evidently this has been a problem. I found a box for a replacement CPS, TPS and a sensor from the intake manifold and an old coil unit under the seat.

Offline

 

# 12  2/28/2012 10:21 PM

squirelscat
Member
Registered: 2/23/2012
Posts: 15

Re: 97 grand am cranks won't start

I started it again with ether after disconnecting the battery for ten minutes to reset whatever. It started after some difficulty. I brought it up to 4000 RPM when it fell to 3000 and began to surge. It became worse as I placed the pedal on the floor never getting above 4000 RPM's this was the same if I gradually brought it up or just slammed it to the floor.

Offline

 

# 13  2/29/2012 12:02 AM

TechHelp2
Administrator
Registered: 11/24/2009
Posts: 1299

Re: 97 grand am cranks won't start

You said you have a scanner that can read data; can you read the temperature at the coolant temperature sensor?

It's hard to diagnose a car with out seeing it in front of me but with all that you have done and the way you can get it started it sounds like you have a fuel delivery problem when the engine is cold.

The coolant temperature sensor is like the choke in an engine with a carburetor. When it is cold it will deliver a rich mixture to run the engine in the colder weather. When the engine warms up the higher temperature sent by the sensor tells the computer to lean out the fuel mixture to run the engine efficiently and within emission standards according to the temperature being received.

If the coolant sensor is sending the wrong signal to the computer like it is in the desert at 120 degrees; then the fuel mixture will be far too lean to start the engine giving you the no start condition.

If you can start the engine with ether and get it to 3000 RPM; then you would need to check out this sensor for proper operation.

Let me know your results because this is very important to know before we can go any further.


realworldautomotive.com
car and truck information like nowhere else

Offline

 

# 14  2/29/2012 6:09 PM

squirelscat
Member
Registered: 2/23/2012
Posts: 15

Re: 97 grand am cranks won't start

I ran the vehicle for a half hour or more while trying the vehicle tests. I shut it down and attempted to restart with no success. The temperature on the gauge was at least 180 to 200 degrees and the engine fan was cycling fine. Here is the test results.

Ok I have the Craftsman 20899 OBD I & II
ON THE DASH TEMP approximately 180 degrees, 146,500 miles on the vehicle odometer.
On my I/M monitor status I have:
Steady on MIS, FUE and CCM for tests that have been completed
Flashing CAT, EVA, O2S, HTR and EGR indicating test has not or cannot be completed but are recognized by the scanner as being present on the vehicle.

IDLE     approximately 3000         
Calc Load%           15.6        28.6       
ECT in deg F        206        224
STFT B1%        -11.7     -6.4
LTFT B1%            -5.4        -4.6
MAP in HG        9.1            8.8
RPM                    798        3114
Spark Advance        17        15
IAT in deg F        71        75
TPS %            0.0        9.4
O2S B1 S1(V)        0.365    0.710
STFT B1 S1(%)        -10.1        -14.0       
O2S B1 S2(V)        0.065    0.455
STFT B1 S2(%)        NA        NA
fuel system 1        CL        CL

Offline

 

# 15  2/29/2012 8:40 PM

TechHelp2
Administrator
Registered: 11/24/2009
Posts: 1299

Re: 97 grand am cranks won't start

The readings you gave me show the coolant temp sensor is reading accurately but that is when it is warm. Check the cooling temperature when the engine is cold.

The MAP sensor readings seem low. Check the engine vacuum it should be about 16 to 18 HG at idle and also cursing RPM. Make sure the vacuum hose to the map sensor is not cracked or clogged.

Get back to me with the results. I'll keep looking for more data.


realworldautomotive.com
car and truck information like nowhere else

Offline

 

# 16  2/29/2012 10:00 PM

squirelscat
Member
Registered: 2/23/2012
Posts: 15

Re: 97 grand am cranks won't start

I disconnected the electric plug to what I think is the MAP sensor to verify. It went from 10.2 mm Hg to 2.0. I hooked into that hose off of the manifold and I was getting about 15 at idle. I revved it up to 2500 and I got 18 -20. the engine never did return to "cold" but before I started it my monitor read 160 and the gauge read below 100.

Offline

 

# 17  3/1/2012 4:14 AM

TechHelp2
Administrator
Registered: 11/24/2009
Posts: 1299

Re: 97 grand am cranks won't start

With the engine running disconnect the vacuum hose to the MAP sensor, does the engine run better?

When the engine is running does the engine blow any smoke? Is it blue, black or white smoke if any?

With out seeing the problem in front of me it is hard to give you all the correct advice.

Let me about these questions


realworldautomotive.com
car and truck information like nowhere else

Offline

 

# 18  3/2/2012 2:55 PM

squirelscat
Member
Registered: 2/23/2012
Posts: 15

Re: 97 grand am cranks won't start

The engine stalled when the vacuum line was disconnected. The hose seems to be soft. I'm going to replace it on the off chance its collapsing, preventing an accurate MAP reading. Its only about 4-6 in long. The engine doesn't smoke when running but there seems to be quite a bit of condensation from the exhaust. It doesn't smell rich but it is a little acrid, sharp smelling. No problem, I appreciate the assistance. Don't feel bad, its right in front of me and I'm stumped. I really appreciate all of the guidance.

Offline

 

# 19  3/3/2012 12:15 AM

Administrator
Administrator
Registered: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1279

Re: 97 grand am cranks won't start

I'm a little lost. Let's recap.

Originally it was a no-start, and would only run on ether. Then you said you got a noid light, and had no injector pulse while cranking.

But now it's running on its own, only badly, or do you just keep spraying the either in the intake to keep it running?

If there is no injector pulse while cranking -- it won't run -- and that's where you start the diag.

Confirm where we're at please.


realworldautomotive.com
car and truck information like nowhere else

Offline

 

# 20  3/3/2012 3:43 AM

squirelscat
Member
Registered: 2/23/2012
Posts: 15

Re: 97 grand am cranks won't start

It wouldn't start on its own, only crank. It will start with ether. After starting it would run fairly well on its own until you pass 3500 rpm. That's when I ran into the "surging". I tested with a noid light while cranking and received no signal. The engine just runs noisily by my standards (sounds like valve clatter from the timing end of the engine) but its not unlike the two other Grand Am of similar years I've had the pleasure of fooling with. One of them turned out to be bad rod bearings as the noise source. The only code it had was the AIT (Air Intake Temperature) high input voltage P0113.

Offline

 
E-mail Page
Print Page
Save or Share Information
ALLDATAdiy.com is the leading source of factory diagnostic & repair information specific to your car.

Powered by PunBB
Copyright © 2007-  RealWorldAutomotive.com

Save or Share Automotive Information
Custom Search