Ford Expedition:

Car does not start -- Transfer Case Neutral Indicator Fault

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#1 10/10/2018 12:18 PM

jirikuthan
New member
Registered: 1/6/2015
Posts: 8

Car does not start -- Transfer Case Neutral Indicator Fault

Folks,

My Ford expedition EL 2009 doesn't start and diagnostics shows P1707 Transfer Case Neutral Indicator Hard Fault Present.
https://www.troublecodes.net/p1codes/p1707/

My workshop has replaced a sensor in the transfer case yet the problem continues.

Voltage on starter relay's control cirtucit seems incorrect:  where the relay (pin #2) should receive ground, +1.5V appears instead.

Any idea?

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#2 10/11/2018 2:33 AM

TechHelp2
Administrator
Registered: 11/24/2009
Posts: 1292

Re: Car does not start -- Transfer Case Neutral Indicator Fault

The use of a scan tool can be very useful by looking at the live data to see if the vehicle is actually in park or neutral.

In the battery junction box check the fuse # F54 5 amp and # F26 15 amp and # F13 30 amp.

Terminal 3 should be hot at all times and terminal 1 should be hot only when the key is truned to start.

In the Smart junction box fuse #F27 20 amp.

I hope these suggestions help. If you need more assistance then get back to me when you can.


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#3 Yesterday 11:57 AM

jirikuthan
New member
Registered: 1/6/2015
Posts: 8

Re: Car does not start -- Transfer Case Neutral Indicator Fault

Thank you for your guidance -- unfortunately the "common suspects" seem ok -- all the fuses are all right, and the car misbehaves only every other start (fuses would be cause of all-or-nothing errors). Terminal 3 (starter  voltage source) is hot all the times and shows as expectd 12.5V (the same as battery's positive pole).

What confuses me is the voltages I read on the relay's control circuit pins against the battery's negative pole. One pin shows always 1.556V against the battery's negative pole. The other pin reads during starting either 11.66 V or occasionally it reads 2.00V. 

Test report, produced by Torque, is attached.

Any idea what to look for?

Thanks a lot!

-jiri


VIN :1FMFK18549LA02755
Vehicle Calibration ID:RXFKCBE.H32

Test report:
------------------
MID:$01 TID:$81
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 1
Max: 3A   Min: 0,55A
Test result value: 1,622A
PASS
----
MID:$01 TID:$84
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 1
Max: 1 500   Min: 17
Test result value: 110,8
PASS
----
MID:$02 TID:$01
Rich to Lean sensor threshold voltage(constant) - O2 Bank 1 Sensor 2
Max: 7,99527V   Min: 0V
Test result value: 0,44994V
PASS
----
MID:$02 TID:$81
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 2
Max: 3A   Min: 0,4A
Test result value: 0,927A
PASS
----
MID:$02 TID:$85
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 2
Max: 0mV/s   Min: -30 000mV/s
Test result value: -5 850mV/s
PASS
----
MID:$02 TID:$86
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 2
Max: 6 000ms   Min: 0ms
Test result value: 1 629ms
PASS
----
MID:$05 TID:$81
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 1
Max: 3A   Min: 1A
Test result value: 1,644A
PASS
----
MID:$05 TID:$84
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 1
Max: 1 500   Min: 17
Test result value: 130,60001
PASS
----
MID:$06 TID:$01
Rich to Lean sensor threshold voltage(constant) - O2 Bank 2 Sensor 2
Max: 7,99527V   Min: 0V
Test result value: 0,44994V
PASS
----
MID:$06 TID:$81
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 2
Max: 3A   Min: 0,4A
Test result value: 0,956A
PASS
----
MID:$06 TID:$85
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 2
Max: 0mV/s   Min: -30 000mV/s
Test result value: -4 184mV/s
PASS
----
MID:$06 TID:$86
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 2
Max: 6 000ms   Min: 0ms
Test result value: 1 651ms
PASS
----
MID:$01 TID:$81
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 1
Max: 3A   Min: 0,55A
Test result value: 1,622A
PASS
----
MID:$01 TID:$84
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 1
Max: 1 500   Min: 17
Test result value: 110,8
PASS
----
MID:$02 TID:$01
Rich to Lean sensor threshold voltage(constant) - O2 Bank 1 Sensor 2
Max: 7,99527V   Min: 0V
Test result value: 0,44994V
PASS
----
MID:$02 TID:$81
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 2
Max: 3A   Min: 0,4A
Test result value: 0,927A
PASS
----
MID:$02 TID:$85
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 2
Max: 0mV/s   Min: -30 000mV/s
Test result value: -5 850mV/s
PASS
----
MID:$02 TID:$86
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 2
Max: 6 000ms   Min: 0ms
Test result value: 1 629ms
PASS
----
MID:$05 TID:$81
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 1
Max: 3A   Min: 1A
Test result value: 1,644A
PASS
----
MID:$05 TID:$84
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 1
Max: 1 500   Min: 17
Test result value: 130,60001
PASS
----
MID:$06 TID:$01
Rich to Lean sensor threshold voltage(constant) - O2 Bank 2 Sensor 2
Max: 7,99527V   Min: 0V
Test result value: 0,44994V
PASS
----
MID:$06 TID:$81
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 2
Max: 3A   Min: 0,4A
Test result value: 0,956A
PASS
----
MID:$06 TID:$85
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 2
Max: 0mV/s   Min: -30 000mV/s
Test result value: -4 184mV/s
PASS
----
MID:$06 TID:$86
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 2
Max: 6 000ms   Min: 0ms
Test result value: 1 651ms
PASS
----
MID:$21 TID:$80
- Catalyst Monitor Bank 1
Max: 0,53124Ratio   Min: 0Ratio
Test result value: 0,10156Ratio
PASS
----
MID:$22 TID:$80
- Catalyst Monitor Bank 2
Max: 0,62499Ratio   Min: 0Ratio
Test result value: 0,10547Ratio
PASS
----
MID:$35 TID:$80
-
Max: 28,44°   Min: 0°
Test result value: 3,8°
PASS
----
MID:$35 TID:$81
-
Max: 12,24°   Min: 0°
Test result value: 2,26°
PASS
----
MID:$36 TID:$80
-
Max: 28,44°   Min: 0°
Test result value: 3,26°
PASS
----
MID:$36 TID:$81
-
Max: 12,24°   Min: 0°
Test result value: 1,79°
PASS
----
MID:$3a TID:$80
- EVAP Monitor (cap off)
Max: 8 191,75Pa   Min: -1 992,5Pa
Test result value: -1 992,5Pa
PASS
----
MID:$3a TID:$81
- EVAP Monitor (cap off)
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$3a TID:$82
- EVAP Monitor (cap off)
Max: -1 992,5Pa   Min: -8 192Pa
Test result value: -1 992,5Pa
PASS
----
MID:$3b TID:$80
- EVAP Monitor (0.090")
Max: 693,75Pa   Min: -8 192Pa
Test result value: 290Pa
PASS
----
MID:$3d TID:$80
- EVAP Monitor (0.020")
Max: 8 191,75Pa/s   Min: -1 992,5Pa/s
Test result value: -266Pa/s
PASS
----
MID:$3d TID:$81
- EVAP Monitor (0.020")
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$3d TID:$82
- EVAP Monitor (0.020")
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$01 TID:$81
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 1
Max: 3A   Min: 0,55A
Test result value: 1,622A
PASS
----
MID:$01 TID:$84
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 1
Max: 1 500   Min: 17
Test result value: 110,8
PASS
----
MID:$02 TID:$01
Rich to Lean sensor threshold voltage(constant) - O2 Bank 1 Sensor 2
Max: 7,99527V   Min: 0V
Test result value: 0,44994V
PASS
----
MID:$02 TID:$81
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 2
Max: 3A   Min: 0,4A
Test result value: 0,927A
PASS
----
MID:$02 TID:$85
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 2
Max: 0mV/s   Min: -30 000mV/s
Test result value: -5 850mV/s
PASS
----
MID:$02 TID:$86
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 2
Max: 6 000ms   Min: 0ms
Test result value: 1 629ms
PASS
----
MID:$05 TID:$81
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 1
Max: 3A   Min: 1A
Test result value: 1,644A
PASS
----
MID:$05 TID:$84
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 1
Max: 1 500   Min: 17
Test result value: 130,60001
PASS
----
MID:$06 TID:$01
Rich to Lean sensor threshold voltage(constant) - O2 Bank 2 Sensor 2
Max: 7,99527V   Min: 0V
Test result value: 0,44994V
PASS
----
MID:$06 TID:$81
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 2
Max: 3A   Min: 0,4A
Test result value: 0,956A
PASS
----
MID:$06 TID:$85
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 2
Max: 0mV/s   Min: -30 000mV/s
Test result value: -4 184mV/s
PASS
----
MID:$06 TID:$86
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 2
Max: 6 000ms   Min: 0ms
Test result value: 1 651ms
PASS
----
MID:$21 TID:$80
- Catalyst Monitor Bank 1
Max: 0,53124Ratio   Min: 0Ratio
Test result value: 0,10156Ratio
PASS
----
MID:$22 TID:$80
- Catalyst Monitor Bank 2
Max: 0,62499Ratio   Min: 0Ratio
Test result value: 0,10547Ratio
PASS
----
MID:$35 TID:$80
-
Max: 28,44°   Min: 0°
Test result value: 3,8°
PASS
----
MID:$35 TID:$81
-
Max: 12,24°   Min: 0°
Test result value: 2,26°
PASS
----
MID:$36 TID:$80
-
Max: 28,44°   Min: 0°
Test result value: 3,26°
PASS
----
MID:$36 TID:$81
-
Max: 12,24°   Min: 0°
Test result value: 1,79°
PASS
----
MID:$3a TID:$80
- EVAP Monitor (cap off)
Max: 8 191,75Pa   Min: -1 992,5Pa
Test result value: -1 992,5Pa
PASS
----
MID:$3a TID:$81
- EVAP Monitor (cap off)
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$3a TID:$82
- EVAP Monitor (cap off)
Max: -1 992,5Pa   Min: -8 192Pa
Test result value: -1 992,5Pa
PASS
----
MID:$3b TID:$80
- EVAP Monitor (0.090")
Max: 693,75Pa   Min: -8 192Pa
Test result value: 290Pa
PASS
----
MID:$3d TID:$80
- EVAP Monitor (0.020")
Max: 8 191,75Pa/s   Min: -1 992,5Pa/s
Test result value: -266Pa/s
PASS
----
MID:$3d TID:$81
- EVAP Monitor (0.020")
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$3d TID:$82
- EVAP Monitor (0.020")
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$a1 TID:$80
- Misfire Monitor General Data
Max: 24,49993%   Min: 0%
Test result value: 0%
PASS
----
MID:$a1 TID:$81
- Misfire Monitor General Data
Max: 0,99953%   Min: 0%
Test result value: 0%
PASS
----
MID:$a1 TID:$82
- Misfire Monitor General Data
Max: 24,49993%   Min: 0%
Test result value: 2,48738%
PASS
----
MID:$a1 TID:$83
- Misfire Monitor General Data
Max: 0,99953%   Min: 0%
Test result value: 0%
PASS
----
MID:$a1 TID:$84
- Misfire Monitor General Data
Max: 911,10004°C   Min: 0°C
Test result value: 583,90002°C
PASS
----
MID:$a2 TID:$0b
EWMA Misfire counts (average) for last 10 drive cycles - Misfire Cylinder 1 Data
Max: 65 535Count   Min: 0Count
Test result value: 0Count
PASS
----
MID:$a2 TID:$0c
Misfire counts for last/current driving cycles(calculated) - Misfire Cylinder 1 Data
Max: 65 535Count   Min: 0Count
Test result value: 0Count
PASS
----
MID:$a2 TID:$80
- Misfire Cylinder 1 Data
Max: 24,49993%   Min: 0%
Test result value: 0%
PASS
----
MID:$a2 TID:$81
- Misfire Cylinder 1 Data
Max: 0,99953%   Min: 0%
Test result value: 0%
PASS
----
MID:$a3 TID:$0b
EWMA Misfire counts (average) for last 10 drive cycles - Misfire Cylinder 2 Data
Max: 65 535Count   Min: 0Count
Test result value: 0Count
PASS
----
MID:$a3 TID:$0c
Misfire counts for last/current driving cycles(calculated) - Misfire Cylinder 2 Data
Max: 65 535Count   Min: 0Count
Test result value: 0Count
PASS
----
MID:$a3 TID:$80
- Misfire Cylinder 2 Data
Max: 24,49993%   Min: 0%
Test result value: 0%
PASS
----
MID:$a3 TID:$81
- Misfire Cylinder 2 Data
Max: 0,99953%   Min: 0%
Test result value: 0%
PASS
----

Ford Expedition Recalls, TSBs and Service Information >> ALLDATA

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#4 Yesterday 3:28 PM

TechHelp2
Administrator
Registered: 11/24/2009
Posts: 1292

Re: Car does not start -- Transfer Case Neutral Indicator Fault

The test results are all for emissions not giving the information I was expecting.

The low voltage on the ground of the relay is coming from the PCM. If the PCM does not see all the information it is looking for it will not allow the ground to go to the starter relay to start the truck.

You can run a jumper wire to the #2 terminal to ground and see if the truck starts.

The theft deterrent could cause this, one quick test would be to have all doors closed and lock the truck with the remote and then unlock it. Do this three times. Sometimes this has had good results in the past. Not sure it will help you but it wouldn't hurt to try and is a quick test. 

Like I mentioned before, a good scan tool can look at the park neutral switch to see if it is actually in park or neutral.

I will send you wire schematics on the PCM and starter circuit. I hope they help.

http://www.realworldautomotive.com/forums/uploads/thumbs/174_147853117.jpg

I have noticed that this problem you are having has been going on for three years, I reviewed your previous posts from 2015. I think it is time you bring the truck to a Ford dealer and they can use the factory scan tool to go over your vehicle to see what exactly is going on. This seems to be a very complicated issue that needs a professional that is familiar with the vehicle and also the problem.


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